tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5157868497534649595.post3771020554000302929..comments2023-07-09T07:07:59.823-04:00Comments on SoMeHoW Frum : Fifteenhundred Flatbushers Fight Foe - Flatbush AsifaUnknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger33125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5157868497534649595.post-12412710529988465722012-06-13T21:25:04.925-04:002012-06-13T21:25:04.925-04:00There was an archeological dig near Yerushalaim th...There was an archeological dig near Yerushalaim that found an ancient Kol Koreh banning the use of the wheel. That was because it allowed people to travel outside of their homes.<br /><br />Is anybody makpid on bal toseph?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5157868497534649595.post-32923361706845991412012-06-13T12:21:03.814-04:002012-06-13T12:21:03.814-04:00Rabbi Schorr is still against texting. One concern...Rabbi Schorr is still against texting. One concern is that people say things that they wouldn't using other means of communication.<br /><br />Tape recorders may have been banned from the classroom, perhaps because Rebbeim were relying on them to teach the lesson while they relaxed. There may have been nothing wrong with the technology per se.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5157868497534649595.post-71150164827289209802012-06-13T01:07:00.327-04:002012-06-13T01:07:00.327-04:00I understand why you consider Rav Wosner's psa...I understand why you consider Rav Wosner's psak not binding.<br /><br />However, Rav Wachsman firmly declared that you therefore have no chelek in Olam Haba.<br /><br />Now, what do you find "positive" about that?Shlomonoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5157868497534649595.post-44926203699895241932012-06-12T19:58:57.848-04:002012-06-12T19:58:57.848-04:00These talks are available in full on The Yeshivah ...These talks are available in full on The Yeshivah World. In introducing these talks YWN says:"In the extended article below, are the videos of the speeches delivered at this past Sundays Internet Asifa, held at the Agudah of Avenue L. It should be noted, that YWN has nothing to do with these videos, we are simply publishing a link available on the Internet. It is well understood that it seems ironic to be posting these videos on the Internet. But Rabbonim felt that it may be Nisorer many people who were unable to attend." I would like to understand how these rabbanim decided this issue , did they consult with the other rabbis at the original asifa?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5157868497534649595.post-85727133202096486372012-06-12T19:48:48.416-04:002012-06-12T19:48:48.416-04:00there was anything positive -- as opposed to posit...<i>there was anything positive -- as opposed to positively </i><br />I love your word play, Shlomo. You are welcome here anytime.<br /><br />I almost did heed the call and call him, but I didn't find his number using a simple anywho and google search. Please don't publish it here.<br /><br />I always look for the positive, and I am quite aware that all was not well with the Grand Asifa. Yet there was plenty of good which I delineated above.<br /><br />I don't want to sound like a broken record, but I've explained elsewhere on this blog Rav Wosner's psak and why I don't feel it applies to me or anyone else in the USA who is not his Talmid.SoMeHoW Frumhttp://somehowfrum.blogspot.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5157868497534649595.post-2285973771194170662012-06-12T19:37:38.873-04:002012-06-12T19:37:38.873-04:00I understand why you would want to move on.
I wou...I understand why you would want to move on.<br /><br />I would as well, were I in your position, wanting to believe that there was anything positive -- as opposed to positively embarrassing -- about the Citifield Asifa.<br /><br />Why wait for someone else to call Rav Wachsman and ask him my questions when you can do it yourself, especially once you tell him that you're trying to defend the apparent geneivas da'as and geneivas zman (in addiiton to the bizarre situation where, according to him, even the Rabbonim who spoke at the Flatbush Asifa have no chelek in Olam HaBa, given that htey went against Rav Wosner's psak and permitted filtered Internet in the home and did not advocate tossing kids from yeshivas.Shlomonoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5157868497534649595.post-10231386330313026642012-06-12T18:04:54.514-04:002012-06-12T18:04:54.514-04:00Yet I haven't seen that proclamation reach the...<i>Yet I haven't seen that proclamation reach the streets of Flatbush. Yet.</i><br /><br />איזהו חכם הרואה את הנולד<br /><br />Just give it some time. past performance is no guarantee of future results but that's the way the smart money bets.The Bray of Fundiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08552912825252813495noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5157868497534649595.post-57909911449523985072012-06-12T15:58:54.825-04:002012-06-12T15:58:54.825-04:00Anon 2:39
As I've reiterated above, different...Anon 2:39<br /><br />As I've reiterated above, different strokes for different folks. What works in Bnei Brak doesn't work in Flatbush. Even in Flatbush there are a vast array of Shuls/people. RAS is much more stringent on his Shul-goers than he is on Flatbush as a whole.<br /><br />What is noteworthy in my opinion is how TXTing has become much more acceptable as of late. Years ago, RAS was fire and brimstone against it. Maybe he still is, but he didn't mention at the Asifa. Perhaps that is because Facebook and Twitter(s) are more prolific now, or maybe he has softened on that. Pure conjecture.<br /><br />I know that cell phones were frowned upon for use in the street when they first came out. It was considered unlady-like to walk and gab on one in the street, yet now it is par for the course.<br /><br />Another blog notes that Tape-recorders were victims of their own Ban as recently as 1978. So times do change. Every technology takes some time to get used to and be channelled properly.<br /><br />The fight against the TV was won. Yet the Internet combines a tool with entertainment.<br /><br />Finally, the Satmar who are vehemently against the Internet have recently banned bicycles. Yet I haven't seen that proclamation reach the streets of Flatbush. Yet.SoMeHoW Frumhttp://somehowfrum.blogspot.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5157868497534649595.post-8070234573565130362012-06-12T14:40:29.132-04:002012-06-12T14:40:29.132-04:00SoMeHoW,
While you'd like to move on, clearly ...SoMeHoW,<br />While you'd like to move on, clearly one of the Grand Assifa Organizers does not.StamADeyahnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5157868497534649595.post-59746383829621282402012-06-12T14:39:23.281-04:002012-06-12T14:39:23.281-04:00I find it interesting that comments were toned dow...I find it interesting that comments were toned down. I have heard Rabbi Schorr ask people with phones that have Internet to leave the shul, and I saw a poster that had Rabbi Solomon as a signator that any Lakewood guy who has internet loses his zchus in the bais medrash, even to learn thereAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5157868497534649595.post-51275039215867399812012-06-12T12:33:59.127-04:002012-06-12T12:33:59.127-04:00Shlomo, StamADeyah and all anonymi:
Thanks for al...Shlomo, StamADeyah and all anonymi:<br /><br />Thanks for all the comments. I can't really speak for the Grand Asifa organizers, as I am not associated with any of them. This was a first time try and there obviously were mistakes. Let's move on, I've already put up a new post.<br /><br />Anyone who can ask these questions to Rabbi Ephraim Wachsman, or perhaps spokesperson Eytan Kobre, should please do so and report back here.SoMeHoW Frumhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01081274351794701745noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5157868497534649595.post-13167745115844748472012-06-12T10:38:45.337-04:002012-06-12T10:38:45.337-04:00Anonymous:
Perhaps you don't understand.
Righ...Anonymous:<br />Perhaps you don't understand.<br /><br />Right up to the day of the Asifa, its spokesperson was saying that it would not be about banning the internet, but about practical solutions and also that the program would be geared to the broad spectrum of the Jewish Community.<br /><br />Yet, they knew full well that this was not to be the case.<br /><br />You're saying that they should have continued to not tell the truth and to mislead people? Is there some reason why participants should not have been allowed to make an informed decision as to whether they still want to go?Shlomonoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5157868497534649595.post-29135028420850237702012-06-12T09:12:16.481-04:002012-06-12T09:12:16.481-04:00Ouch! This thread is about the Flatbush Asifah and...Ouch! This thread is about the Flatbush Asifah and it is being hijacked. I can't speak for others, particularly because I have no idea what happened. But I suppose the plan was that there was going to be speeches in English, then when the Chassidim were brought aboard, the organizers agreed to their request to have Yiddish only, by compromising by having English subtitles on the screen. What did you want them to do at that point? Take out full page ads in the papers saying so? If I recall, there were articles in Hamodiah stating that there was going to be screen translation.<br /><br />In my opinion, the big Asifah was a conglomorate of input, hence a hodgepodge of output. Yet it put Asifahs on the map and certainly got the conversation going. Each locale will now have their own gathering with their own rules.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5157868497534649595.post-81097773991089149622012-06-12T08:59:03.763-04:002012-06-12T08:59:03.763-04:00StamADeyah:
Good Moshol.
Add to that my comment ...StamADeyah:<br /><br />Good Moshol.<br /><br />Add to that my comment about their knowing days in advance that the hijacking had taken place and that the plane would be going to a different location, yet continuing to advertise -- through their spokesperson -- that the plane was still going to its original destination.<br /><br />Add to that, that those running the airline are sending the message "Trust me."Shlomonoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5157868497534649595.post-73963168024631418972012-06-12T06:01:27.657-04:002012-06-12T06:01:27.657-04:00SoMeHoW, "Hijacked" is a very passive wo...SoMeHoW, "Hijacked" is a very passive word. This assifah was hijacked like a plane whose pilot decides that it is more important to fill up his plane than to deliver his customers safely to their destination, so he invites Yasser Arafat v'siyato on board, and allows them to bypass the security check.StamADeyahnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5157868497534649595.post-72422573215215844242012-06-12T00:46:02.228-04:002012-06-12T00:46:02.228-04:00Let's say your right and the asifa was hijacke...Let's say your right and the asifa was hijacked.<br /><br />Tell me, though.<br /><br />Why was this kept a secret?<br /><br />Why were people not told two days beforehand or even one day beforehand, so that they would be able to make an informed choice as to whether they were still interested in attending?<br /><br />Please show us how you can be melammed zechus as to this did not constitute extreme disrespect for the non-hasidish, non-yiddish-speaking ba'alei batim, including those watching from satellite locations.<br /><br />Please be melamed zechus as to why this did not constitute geneivas da'as, geneivas zman, and geneivas mammon.<br /><br />As for your suggestion I call Rabbi Wachsman and ask him, why don't you do it and then report back to us? (As for me, he knows my voice, so this is not an option.)Shlomonoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5157868497534649595.post-41857125576423027222012-06-12T00:28:30.278-04:002012-06-12T00:28:30.278-04:00Each of the first three speakers very thoughtfully...Each of the first three speakers very thoughtfully and effectively addresed the widespread complaints about Citifield -- that it failed to adequately address English speakers (though virtually all computer users speak English) that it dienfranchised women (even though they are a very natural ally in this effort), that it was short on specifics (despite assurances that technical issues would be addressed), etc. Despite the best of intentions, Citifield was widely viewed as a failure because it made gedolim look like they were out of touch with the real life situation. By insisting that Citifield was wonderful the mashgiach regretably undermined his effectiveness. I do appreciate his mesiras nefaeh in coming depite health issues and wish him a refuah she'lema....and a huge yasher koach for his efforts in leading this important initiative.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5157868497534649595.post-17300098919536439182012-06-11T16:41:48.915-04:002012-06-11T16:41:48.915-04:0080% sounded too high, but even 20% is reason enoug...80% sounded too high, but even 20% is reason enough to keep away.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5157868497534649595.post-4148983032854759822012-06-11T14:52:43.628-04:002012-06-11T14:52:43.628-04:00The widely-circulated statistic about Facebook and...The widely-circulated statistic about Facebook and divorce is 20%, not 80%. Even that number must be taken in context, with a lot of salt. http://blogs.wsj.com/numbersguy/divorcing-hype-from-reality-in-facebook-stats-1046/Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5157868497534649595.post-53366999287645238972012-06-11T13:32:22.454-04:002012-06-11T13:32:22.454-04:00Well, what starts out as a good idea gets "hi...Well, what starts out as a good idea gets "hijacked" when too many cooks spoil the broth. Had the original plans taken root, we probably wouldn't have had a Flatbush Asifa, as the Citifield event would have invited women,would have had English speakers, would have provided practical advice...SoMeHoW Frumhttp://somehowfrum.blogspot.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5157868497534649595.post-4948673626637249932012-06-11T13:17:26.305-04:002012-06-11T13:17:26.305-04:00Last time I checked hijacking was a criminal activ...Last time I checked hijacking was a criminal activity. Just what are you suggesting?<br /><br />I'm sticking to my guns. No hijacking involved. It was a case of proportional representation.The Bray of Fundiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08552912825252813495noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5157868497534649595.post-73655139922563727232012-06-11T12:42:00.935-04:002012-06-11T12:42:00.935-04:00Shlomo:
In my opionion, the Citifield Asifa was &...Shlomo:<br /><br />In my opionion, the Citifield Asifa was "hijacked" by Chasidim. They decided on who would speak and in what language.<br /><br />So you ask an excellent question. Yet the Internet is something that is not a one size fits all for every community. In Eretz Yisroel, ball playing is frowned upon, if not outright Asur. What works in Williamsburg does not work in Flatbush, and vice versa.<br /><br />Even in Flatbush, some Yeshivos are already posting their criteria. Kollel fellows will probably face stricter restrictions over Baal HaBaatim.<br /><br />My understanding is that Rav Wosner retracted some of what he said, but we probably have no way of knowing if that is true.<br /><br />It is very difficult to Pasken outside one's own area.<br /><br />Why don't you call Rabbi Wachsman and ask him your question? Please report back here.SoMeHoW Frumhttp://somehowfrum.blogspot.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5157868497534649595.post-53584395528154269472012-06-11T11:35:48.253-04:002012-06-11T11:35:48.253-04:00You wrote:
"Yet it is now up to each communit...You wrote:<br />"Yet it is now up to each community to form its own guidelines. What works for Bnei Brak doesn't necessarily work for Flatbush."<br /><br />I don't disagree with what you say needs to be done, but don't understand how this constitutes an extension of the Citifield Asifa.<br /><br />The Citifield Asifa declared that no one is permitted to have Internet in their home, even with a filter, and that all children from such homes must be expelled from yeshiva. This was unequivocal and Rabbi Wachsman declared that this psak was binding on all of Clal Yisroel, presumably including all yeshivos.<br /><br />According to Rav Wachsman, whoever goes against this has no chelek in Olam Haba.<br /><br />To say that the Flatbush Asifa is an extension is disingenuous, to say the least.Shlomonoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5157868497534649595.post-51467226583397133992012-06-11T11:27:34.087-04:002012-06-11T11:27:34.087-04:00Tear Down that comment Mr. GorbachevTear Down that comment Mr. GorbachevThe Bray of Fundiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08552912825252813495noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5157868497534649595.post-78183604968630976282012-06-11T06:51:18.170-04:002012-06-11T06:51:18.170-04:00Anon 11:58:
I rarely remove comments, but I am te...Anon 11:58:<br /><br />I rarely remove comments, but I am tempted. I would say that your remarks are LH, but that would mean that they are true, which I disagree.<br /><br />All RMS meant by "extension of Citifield" was that the Grand Asifa was the turning point, the rallying of Klal Yisroel against the evils of the Internet. Yet it is now up to each community to form its own guidelines. What works for Bnei Brak doesn't necessarily work for Flatbush. The mini rallies that will now take place in various cities are certainly an extension of CitiField.<br /><br />As for his Drosho, I don't think he was feeling too well. He looked frail. Remember, not too long ago he was hospitalized.<br /><br />I liked his vort on Tihiyu. I'm scratching my head what is bothering you.<br /><br />As for being in our out of touch, I would say he is IN. The Grand Asifa was strongly backed by him, and he put in much Koach. Only someone who is in touch with reality could work so hard on an issue when he is not feeling well.SoMeHoW Frumhttp://somehowfrum.blogspot.comnoreply@blogger.com